Dave Lukas, The Misfit Entrepreneur_Breakthrough Entrepreneurship

The weekly podcast with serial entrepreneur, Dave M. Lukas, devoted to giving you incredibly useful and unique insight from the world's top entrepreneurs with a focus on their non-traditional methods for achieving success, their Misfit side. Misfit was created to give YOU the breakthrough entrepreneurship strategies and actionable advice to accelerate your success! The show's open format and Misfit 3 concept, combined with Dave's intuitive and engaging interview style quickly uncover each guest's key tools, tactics, and tricks that listeners can start using in their lives right now. Learn more about the show at and become a member of Misfit Nation by signing up for the Misfit Minute, the FREE weekly email with specific resources from the week's "Misfit 3," and actionable tips and items from the world of Misfit Entrepreneurs. It is delivered every Friday to your inbox!
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Now displaying: November, 2018

The weekly podcast with serial entrepreneur, Dave M. Lukas, devoted to giving you incredibly useful and unique insight from the world's top entrepreneurs with a focus on their non-traditional methods for achieving success, their Misfit side. Misfit was created to give YOU the best, actionable advice to accelerate your success!

The show's open format and Misfit 3 concept, combined with Dave's intuitive and engaging interview style quickly uncovers each guest's key tools, tactics, and tricks that listeners can start using in their lives right now.

Learn more about the show at and become a member of Misfit Nation by signing up for the Misfit Minute, the FREE weekly email with specific resources from the week's "Misfit 3," and actionable tips and items from the world of Misfit Entrepreneurs. It is delivered every Friday to your inbox!

Nov 28, 2018

121: Tap in to Your "Brave" and Breakthrough to Your Next Level(s) with Jena Rodriquez This week’s Misfit Entrepreneur is Jena Rodriguez. Jena is a brand, business, and Brave strategist and the founder of Brave Masters – a firm committed to boosting brand clarity, growing profits, and helping business owners capitalize on the natural abilities.

Jena’s personal story is pretty incredible. She went from bankrupt and over 700 thousand in debt to creating a million-dollar business. She’s gone on to help her clients do the same helping increase their revenues by upwards of 800% or more.

And today, I’ve asked to come and share some of her best strategies and secrets of how you can take yourself to your next levels.

As an entrepreneur, over a 12-year period, Jenna went from bankrupt to success. She was in corporate as a controller before starting her business. And as she says, she took a lot of risk in her first business by buying a storefront. She made $300k in her first year but was over $700k in debt. After a year, she ran into the problems of being to pay her rent, her employees. She either had to quit or get back up on the horse.

She had to close the store and file bankruptcy. She was somewhat relieved but was not sure what to do next. She partnered with her husband on a business together and off they went.

She learned some valuable things. First, what she truly wanted and didn’t want which was to be an employee, but to work for herself and create her true freedom. Her big decision was to “stay in the game.”

Nowadays, she runs the business and her husband has his own business. She helps people to unleash their “brave” and help them to succeed in their business.

What does it mean to be “Brave” and be a “Bravemaster?”

  • You are willing to make the hard decisions
  • You are willing to be uncomfortable
  • You are willing to get up every day and do what it takes
  • Say “yes” and then figure it out
  • Facing life head on and creating it the way you want to create it.

What holds people back the most from unleashing their “Bravemaster?”

  • Self-awareness. Practicing observing your thoughts and actions on a daily basis and taking responsibility for it.
  • People don’t take the time to become “hyper-aware” to when they are not brave.
  • A lot of people let circumstances dictate their life and in order to become a bravemaster, you have to overcome this.

How did you figure out the secret of self-awareness and control of your thoughts?

  • Get help! Study books and those that have already figured it out
  • Seek out mentors that have this understanding as a discipline and learn from them
  • You can hear the concepts, but until you make the decision to act on things and make it part of your daily life discipline, you won’t truly get it.
  • Get help where you need the most support. This is what high performers do.
  • Remember, we don’t know what we don’t know. Bring the awareness to the conscious of your mind.
  • You will learn that you will need to be forever a student and play the long game.

Is there a BRAVE framework that you teach others? If so, can you share it?

  • Belief in self/possibility
  • Resilience
  • Action
  • Vulnerability
  • Expansion
  • Define how you will approach your days. Create it and take 100% responsibility. Be intentional.
  • Reflect on the miracles at the end of the day and the production you’ve had.
  • Things will not always go your way, but controlling your thoughts and being careful not to resist, but to persist is important.
  • It is much more how you respond to the circumstance than the circumstance itself.

At the 30 min mark, I ask Jena about her business. You’ve generated 100’s of thousands of dollar speaking from stage. How do you do that?

  • She only started speaking from stage 5 years ago
  • She took commitment and action to become a speaker
  • She has released a course on what she did called the “Brave Speaker”
  • She mastered the art of the structure of the talk: Where do you connect? Where do you offer content? How do you invite and convert them to more?
  • Missteps people make is that they deliver a lot of content and don’t connect.
  • The other part is to master the follow-up and follow through.
  • The 4 C’s moving people to be able to decide:
    • Capture – Getting their attention and owning the stage – getting people to engage
    • Connect – This is all about story. Your “from…to”
    • Content - Transition to what you are going to share/teach/present, etc.
    • Convert – Bridging the gap and inviting them to your offer to solve the problem. “Imagine if…” Then you can give a fast action incentive…

You teach “3 Simple Steps to Make Money in Your Business Now.” What are those 3 steps?

  • Focus on getting visibility, getting leads from the visibility, and then having compelling conversations
  • It is not about selling. It is about interviewing people, finding the right fit for you to help.
  • You must be willing to get highly visible and market yourself

What are the most important actions that people should be doing with their branding and branding?

  • Brand is who you are and what you stand for. What are you transforming in the world.
  • Branding is how you are sharing that
  • Brand is step #1 and most people don’t focus there
  • Brand integrity is very important – audit yourself throughout the year to ask yourself if you are being consistent in your branding.
  • Are you hitting expectations? You must be consistent across all mediums of your brand


Best Quote: “WE make or break us. Not the circumstance.” 


Jena's Misfit 3:

  1. Create your day at the beginning of the day and take control.
  2. Take 100% responsibility of your life.
  3. Brave is a practice and success is a choice, not just a journey.
Nov 21, 2018

This week’s Misfit Entrepreneur is my good friend, Dov Baron. Dov is considered the leading authority on Authentic leadership and is one of INC Magazines Top 100 Leadership speakers. He’s been featured everywhere from Oprah to the Wall Street Journal and has been consulting, advising, and speaking on leadership for the last 30 years. He has spoken in front of everyone from Fortune 500 companies to the United Nations and the State Department.

Dov is also the founder of Full Monty Leadership and the Authentic Speaker Academy on Leadership. He is a multi-time bestselling author and is the host of the Pursuing Deep Greatness TV show and the number one leadership podcast on Itunes, Dov Baron’s Leadership and Loyalty Show.

What I love most about Dov is that he doesn’t mince words, tells you how it really is, and gets results. So, he is just the person I wanted to speak to you about leadership and life on this show.

Dov’s personal email -

Dov was born into abject poverty in London in a ghetto. His mother shipped him off to rabbis because he had “visions” as a kid. He started studying spiritual works with the rabbis and then later traveled the world studying with spiritual masters from all different areas including Buddhism, Hinduism, and others.

He was very interested in psychology, but also studied quantum physics. In the 80’s he started speaking and had a knack for it. He was on TV, radio, newspapers. But, he was an adrenaline addict and In June 1990, while freeclimbing a rock face and fell from 120 ft. up landing on his face…or as he likes to say, he “fell 12 stories and landed on my ego.”

His life as he knew it was over and he went through a very deep, dark depression, had many reconstructive surgeries and came out the other side as what he is today.

Who is Shishu Sharma and what did you learn from him?

• Shishu is his wife’s uncle

• Dov dedicated his last book to him

• One of the chapters of the book is about being a CRO – Chief Relationship Officer

• Dov spent a considerable amount of time with Shishu before he died of cancer discussion what really mattered

• The #1 thing was the realization of how important relationships are and how he missed out on many of the ones in his life.

What is your biggest takeaway from learning this from him?

• It wasn’t any changes as much as what he learned underscored what he believed about how relationships are the most important thing in our lives

• Relationships tie everything together

• Once you realize this, you have to invest in them and ask for help

How did you get out of your depression after your fall and how did it lead to your understanding of authentic leadership?

Dov tells this story at the 14 min mark…

• Authenticity is what you know about yourself

• What we know about ourselves is an evolution

• Many people think they know themselves, but they don’t

• When Dov fell, his identity got smashed to pieces as well

• “There is no back, there is only forward…”

• He would put on the “happy face,” but deep down he struggled to find who he was truly going to be because that person was gone.

• At times he became filled with rage

• He came home one night to find his cat dead and holding the cat, fell to ground weeping, not for the cat, but for the realization that he had hit bottom and had to move forward.

• From there, it became about finding his purpose and how he would serve.

Your identity is not what you do, but your purpose…

At the 17 min mark, Dov answers the question, How do you teach people to find their true identity and purpose?

• People mix up mission statements and purpose – or even passion • Purpose is emotional – it calls to your heart and your soul

• Passion is transitory – when you were 15, your passion was different than it is today

• Your purpose is not transitory. Your purpose is the fuel that goes into the vehicle of your passion.

• Purpose runs through everything

At the 20 min mark, Dov gives an exercise of how you can find your purpose…

• Imagine what your Short statement eulogy would look like – what is that one statement you would want someone to say about you.

• Now imagine what people are whispering in the back of the room – does it echo what is being said in the front? What is it you fear they would whisper in the back of the room?

• Whatever that whisper is tells you your fear and gives you the insight you need to understand who you need to become to live your purpose. •

Your purpose is not your career, but your career can be the best vehicle for your purpose.

What are the characteristics of a notable leader?

• If you want to be a truly outstanding, authentic leader, you must have courage

• You must have courage to be curiosity

• Courage + Curiosity + Love is needed

• Love is critical – great leaders love their people. Because if you don’t, someone else will

• Don’t be afraid to love and truly care (it’s not romantic, it’s platonic)

• You must also be willing to be vulnerable – vulnerability is not a weakness, it is a great strength. You must be willing to show your humanity

What creates loyalty?

• What is the difference between a great friend and an acquaintance? Vulnerability

• When you see people in their faults and love them anyway

• The same goes for you – you’re vulnerability endears people to you

What is the soul of leadership?

• For Dov, the soul of leadership is service. Being there to serve.

• To ask what it within a person is that can be a blind spot or that they need support in overcoming them and then serving them by helping them.

What does purpose matter more than profit?

• From research done between 1991-2001, it was shown that profit changes dramatically when you have purpose.

• 90% of consumers expect companies to act responsibly

• Companies that purpose driven are on average more than 1600% more profitable than companies that are not purpose driven.

• In today’s age, being meaning drive is critical for a company.

• Purpose drives profit.

What is the hero’s journey and how does it relate to this?

• Being a leader is a heroic journey.

• Leadership starts with self and you need to be heroic about it.

• The treasure you most want is hidden in the cave you most fear and you must have the willingness to step into it.

• The treasure is soul – it is your most authentic self, the whole of who you are.

• Many people have everything they want except that “one thing for them…”

• Life is defining you or refining you – that is the choice

• You can’t be a victim and you must be open to life refining you

What are the elements of a great story?

• The answer is the hero’s journey

• Read Joseph Campbell’s, “The Hero’s Journey”

• Read “The Hero with a Thousand Faces”

• Before there was writing, everything was passed on through story

• For a story to work, it has to involve the listener

At the 44 min, Dov tells the story of how he got into speaking…

“If you are going to be the best you possibly you can, you cannot do it by imitating someone else. Your hero’s journey lies in being truly yourself…”

Dov asks you, “What are your taboos? What is it that you don’t think you should talk about? Why? Are those hindering you and not letting you be who you are?


Best Quote: “There is no back, only forward. Life is either defining you or refining you. It is your choice.."


Dov's Misfit 3:

1. Get to know yourself by taking on the heroic journey of self-inquiry. How do you know who you are? Are these principles still true not matter what you are going through?

2. Be deeply curious about everything.

3. Love without limits. Leave the taboos behind.

Nov 14, 2018

This week’s Misfit Entrepreneur is Christopher Lochhead. Chris is a retired, 3-time CMO, entrepreneur, and co-author of Play Bigger and his latest book, Niche Down. He started his first business at 18 and has been called a “Human Exclamation Point” by Fast Company and “Off-putting to some” by The Economist. He is a keynote speaker, a blogger, and is a founding board member of the non-profit, 1 Life Fully Lived. One of the things he is best known for these days is being the host of the highly popular Legends and Losers podcast.

As he says, “I’m a dyslexic paperboy from Montreal with Scottish roots. Over thirty years in business I earned a PhD from the school of hard knocks, drank a lot of whiskey, experienced the bliss of winning, the pain of failure and learned how to laugh about the whole thing.

One thing about Chris is that he doesn’t mince words, he’s direct, and doesn’t put up with any BS, but man can he teach you a lot about how to succeed in business and in life.

Chris grew up in Montreal, Canada in what he calls a “struggling, but loving family.” He got thrown out of school at 18 and found out he is dyslexic as 21. He went on the find out that he has a lot of “learning differences.” At 18 years old, he didn’t have a ton of choices, but one of them was to start his own business – no so much as a way up, but a way out. By the time he 28, he had sold his companies to groups in Silicon Valley and came to live there full time. He went on to become the CMO of 3 publicly traded companies, the last one, Mercury Interactive, which was sold to HP for $4.5 billion.

Since then he has done advisory work for venture back startups, wrote Play Bigger, and for the last few years, he has been focused on the Legends and Losers Podcast and writing his latest book, Niche Down.

Most important lessons about life and business you’ve learned to this point?

  • We get tricked in life to thinking the pathway to success is about fitting in when in truth it is not true.
  • Legendary people, the Misfit Entrepreneurs are original, unique, they take new ground, and they are different.
  • In a world that teaches us to fit in, highly successful people make their place in the world – not find their place in the world.
  • Life works best for us when we are being us – not trying to be or fit into something we are not.

How have you learned to unleash your Inner Misfit, your genius, over the years?

  • “Follow your passion” and “Hustle, Hustle, Hustle” are some of the dumbest pieces of advice given to people.
  • Having the courage to stand out, follow your difference and use it to create the life you want is hard for people to do – but it is what they need to do.
  • Mercenaries vs. Missionaries: When things get really tough, Mercenaries tap out, but Missionaries will crawl through whatever is needed to reach their goal.
  • Work on big problems that you care about and that really make a difference in the world.

“If you can create or design yourself to be the person or entrepreneur you want to be, by definition you are going to be painting your own painting.”

  • The reason “Follow your passion” is such stupid advice is that is can send you down this path of what is my passion instead of asking “How can I truly make a difference…”
  • Also, if you follow your passion in something everyone else is following, then you most likely won’t be able to stand out.

At the 11:40 mark, Chris gives an example of what this means and why niching down is so lucrative in today’s world.

  • “Hustle, Hustle, Hustle” is idiotic because as an entrepreneur or innovator, if you need to be told that it will take hustle or grit, you are already in trouble.
  • It is a pre-requisite to be able to hustle

It is the person who designs and ultimately dominates that niche who become successful.

  • The big mind-twist is that it is niche that makes the brand. It’s the niche that makes the company. It’s the category that makes the person – not the other way around.
  • If you are hustling in a niche that is already being dominated by someone else – you are hustling in a niche that someone else owns, will always be compared to them, and be at a strategic disadvantage. You are playing their game and competing for at best, a piece of the economics.
  • You must “hustle” in a niche that you can design and dominate

At the 19 min mark, Chris answers the question, What are the most important things you have found about how to niche down?

  • What creates a new niche is either taking an existing problem and redesigning or reimagining it or looking at a problem that nobody really thought of…
  • Example of an existing problem is AirBnb redesigning where we stay when we travel, and an example of a new problem is a “Sushirito” to the problem of being able to have Sushi on the go.

“We are at the beginning of a niche-nado”

Is there a set of steps that someone can take to find their niche?

  • Chris makes note of a book called “Thinking Wrong,” and uses the idea of it to look at the opposite of everything you know about a business/product/service, etc. to blow open new thinking. For example, create a bike that doesn’t work in any way. Start by doing this.
  • In a way, we are living in the 1800’s when it comes to boom in technology that we are about to go through. Today’s solutions will cause tomorrow’s problems. Ask yourself, “Of all this cool new stuff, what problems will this create that can be solved?”

Points from Play Bigger that are relevant to entrepreneurs?

  • Design your own category. Most entrepreneurs focus on designing a product and business around it instead of designing the category.
  • The Magic Triangle is when you get product, company, and category design to come together. This is where the magic happens and you get an AirBnb.
  • On average, the category leader earns 70% of the market cap in a category.
  • Go after being a “Big E” entrepreneur

Can you go deeper on the Magic Triangle?

  • As entrepreneurs, we fall in love with our product or solutions. But people don’t want to buy solutions, they want to buy problems (really the removal of them – so their focus is on the problem.
  • Great category designers are evangelists, but not for their product, but for their category.
  • Using as example. First design a new type of product. In Salesforce’s case, it was CRM
  • Second, build and design a new type of company. Salesforce started the idea of SAAS or subscription.
  • Third, teach the world to think in a new way. Salesforce showed the world a new way to think about software. It was a complete 180.
  • The big AHA is to fall in love with the problem and not the solution.

What else is important from a marketing standpoint to help businesses standout?

  • Over 90% of the work done on branding is a waste of time
  • At its core, branding is all about yelling and screaming about who I am or what I am.
  • We get thousands of marketing messages a day and we don’t have a context for it, it doesn’t matter to it.
  • The way the brain works is category first, brand second
  • At the 44 min mark, Chris gives an example of how you fix the brand first problem.

You’ve got a keynote on how to create a Legendary Life. Can you give us a little taste of how to do that?

  • First, you must make a decision about who you are going to be in your life
  • You can design your life and create it. If you don’t believe that, then you live legendary.
  • The biggest way to have a legendary life is to co-create the life with those that you want to partner with to do so.
  • The greatest reward in life is to co-design the life with the ones you love and then live out that design.

Who has been the most surprising guest on Legends and Losers and why?

  • Entrepreneur, Author, and Speaker, Will Little, who is also a convicted killer. Chris never thought that he could be friends with a convicted killer. But, it is who Will became in jail and since coming out being a force for good that makes him so unique.
  • Bill Walton, one of the greatest basketball players of all time. A conversation with him is unlike any other.
  • David Saxe – Co-founder of PayPal and Yammer. Incredible insight into how to sell a company. He unpacks the difference between a product hook and a value proposition.


Best Quote: “We become known for the niche that we own…”


Chris's Misfit 3:

  1. Follow your different...
  2. The #1 thing people say they are afraid of in life and business is public failure. There will be a ton of it. It’s called “Losery.” Embrace the Losery…
  3. The most legendary people have the most courage. Tap into yours.
Nov 7, 2018

This week we have a very special episode with two Misfit Entrepreneurs Leon Ifayemi and Nick van der Velde. This episode was recorded live at Fireside Entrepreneurship Conference in September 2018. I was invited to speak at the event and do a show for the audience.

I wanted to do something unique for the show, so I came up with the idea that when I got to the event, I would spend the first day meeting unique entrepreneurs and find ones that had incredible stories, insight, and wisdom to share. I met a number of incredible people, but really enjoyed my initial conversations with Leon and Nick, and was honored to have them join me for this episode.

Leon is a former Barclays investor, but left that life to start a very unique company called Space, that’s SPCE. SPCE is the rental ecosystem, revolutionizing the way in which the higher education community and the universities which enroll them, connect with the property market. Through a very unique app, they help students find the best places to live on campus. Think of them like an Uber for campus living.

Nick is a social entrepreneur, TedX speaker and founder of Impact Consulting. He helps companies find the synergy of creating a social impact with their business and maximizing profitability. Additionally, he helps companies in their funding pursuits.

I really enjoyed my time with these awesome entrepreneurs and I know you will learn a lot from them, so without further ado, here is my interview with Leon Ifayemi and Nick van der Velde from Fireside 2018.

Leon came up with idea for SPCE in his 2nd year of university. He had a job of helping students find housing in and around campus. He realized what a challenge it was for students, landlords, and property management companies, so he came up with the idea. But, as young graduate, he didn’t have the capital, so he went into investment banking at Barclays and then Rothchild where he was responsible for managing $2 billion. It was there that he met the investors that would eventually invest in SPCE.

Nick grew up in the Netherlands. At 19, he realized that he had to go abroad. He came to Toronto, CA where he excelled in class. While there, he was connected with a real estate investment group that ended up sponsoring him to immigrate to Canada to live full time in 2012. Nick has interesting background in that he was a breakdancer who helped lead campaigns for RBC, SCION, Nokia, and others. In parallel to that, he applied for a job as a “business developer.” He walked into a non-profit and they wanted to create a business model that balances for profit value in creating revenue, but practiced non-profit values increasing the quality of life of a community. Nick was able to raise over $750k for the project in a year. He is now a principle consultant for Impact Consulting and to date has raised over $1.1 million.

Leon, what did you learn from banking that has helped you most as an entrepreneur?

  • Persistence – to get business in investment banking requires a very stoic nature to persevere
  • Being comfortable with not being in control
  • Relationship building is the cornerstone of any business. Your ability to build relationships and earn trust is incredibly important.

Nick, explain social entrepreneurship and how it can help you grow as an entrepreneur…

  • Social entrepreneurship should be “baked in” and not “bolted on.”
  • Having a positive impact is at the core and that impact will help you grow as an entrepreneur
  • There is value in what you do in community and the connection you create
  • It allows you to be vulnerable which allows you to create a more supportive environment for success.

“Millennials are becoming the one in control of spending dollars in a community and are driven more by empathy, so the trend is toward one of social entrepreneurship.”

What is the coolest thing you’ve found about entrepreneurship that you never expected?


  • The overwhelming sense of freedom balanced with responsibility.
  • The challenges and pursuit of success is thrilling and drives you
  • The ability to instill your values into something
  • The ability to work outside the status quo and “rules”
  • Entrepreneurship is a great vehicle to find your higher purpose


  • Street cred
  • There is a level or recognition, value, and validation that is worth so much more than money through the work.

What is a habit that you have created or adopted that you feel gives you an advantage over your competition?


  • A habit of being absolutely persistent without being annoying
  • It is really more of a mindset
  • Surrounding yourself with people who are positive and creating cues in your life by adopting mentors
  • It is as much a lifestyle choice to stay positive as it is a habit

Action items you do to foster this way of thinking and approaching life?


  • Working with mentors and seeking mentorship
  • Weekly meetings with mentors who “have done it”
  • You want to find solutions to problems and getting criticism is fine as it helps you as long as you are getting it from a positive source.


  • Creating compelling value propositions
  • Analyzing patterns of people and businesses and them putting value prop together with the patterns
  • Create a proposal for yourself of who you are, what you stand for, your principles – it is a very eye-opening exercise – your personal value proposition.
  • Entrepreneurship is about consistency, so time management is a key skill

Best piece for advice for an entrepreneur starting out today?


  • Don’t stop
  • Fail and fail fast
  • Always keep going and be willing to adjust, change, and pivot as needed, but never stop
  • Entrepreneurship is like a maze – you will continuously hit dead ends and have to make choices of different directions to go, but as long as you keep going to you will find your way out.


  • You can’t do it all on your own – find others that share your values and share your appreciation for creating value
  • Create duplicates for yourself through your systems and processes as time is your biggest asset and you must leverage it every way you can
  • You have to be ok with stepping out, giving up comfort and safety to grow.
  • Know your “opportunity cost.”

What have you learned about yourself on your journey so far?


  • We are fallible and capable of burning out
  • We can so stubborn that is hurting us and our business
  • Trying to do everything on your own is the hardest way to go and keeps you from reaching your real potential
  • Give people the benefit of the doubt and trust those you’ve hired to do the job
  • Hire better than you


  • Don’t use other people’s definition of success to create your definition of success – define it for yourself
  • Understand when and how to use control to maximize your business and success – you will have to let go at different times.
  • There is something about making things happen that we are just born to do


Best Quote: “Create a proposal for yourself of who you are, what you stand for, your principles – it is a very eye-opening exercise – your personal value proposition.”


Leon and Nick's Misfit 3:

  1. Leon: Be comfortable with your difference – being different is what makes us who we are and part of the nature of entrepreneurs. Risking for delayed gratification is very important. Nick: Understand your core value – why do you show up and who do you want to be?
  2. Leon: Balance. Surround yourself with those that help to keep you from burning out. You have to take time for yourself and take breaks. Nick: Be more empathetic in your life and endeavors
  3. Leon: Adapt – the world is forever changing. The barriers to entry in creating a business are now very low. It’s been democratized. You continuously be able to adapt as what is new today will be old tomorrow. Nick: Increase the level of vulnerability in how your approach your business and lead – be willing to ask for help!